Hidden Treasures - Metal or Hard Rock?

METAL or HARD ROCK?

RJ's Metal thread has me thinking. Jon and I were talking about Fastway and he said they were Hard Rock and my assertion was that they were Metal. I think to make my point and for you to agree with it, you would have to transport yourself back to 1983, was Fastway Metal at that time and did time transform them in Hard Rock? What about AC/DC? Was there ever a time when they were considered Metal? Not sure, so you tell me...

This week you have to do two things for each track posted other than listen and reply, yes... listen to each track and then classify it as either METAL, or HARD ROCK. Now for part II, go back and think about your answer in the context of the year the song was released? Is your answer still correct? If not what changed your thinking over the years?

Lets have some fun and learn something while were at it...

PLAYLIST --> http://www.podsnack.com/CA69EFD9E8C/ah9f2mmn

	Deep Purple Perfect Strangers 1984 1 - Knocking at Your Back Door So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1984? The Mark II line up gets tons of credit for being Heavy Metal pioneers, and rightly so, so what about when they reunited?
	Judas Priest Point of Entry 1981 2 - Heading Out To The Highway So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1981? Kind of the same line of thinking as the Deep Purple track but many mentioned JP as being without question Heavy Metal, listen to this track, do you still think the same?
	Iron Maiden Iron Maiden 1980 3 - Prowler So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1980? Here’s a tricky one, or is it? NWOBHM, New Wave some claim early Iron Maiden resembles the latter, but no one ever questions them being metal when looking at them in totality...
	Black Sabbath Black Sabbath 1970 4 - N.I.B. So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1970? Sort of like re-checking the baseline isn’t it? Well, better to know what the roots are and agree than caused an argument? Or not...???
	Fastway Fastway 1983 5 - Say What You Will So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1983? OK this is the one Jon and I talked about, he said it was Hard Rock, but admitted that in 1983 it could have easily passed as a Metal tune. You decide!

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Gordon Williams on January 17, 2014 at 3:50pm

Wow...a great discussion indeed! But...I think you have to put in the context of how it affected YOU. So Scott bringing up the now verses the then is a great idea.

For me, Deep Purple is heavy rock now...but it was heavy metal then. Let me explain!! As a child of the 60's, I was listening to The Beatles, Creedence Clearwater Revival, and The Monkees. SO...when I first heard my first heavy rock, it was heavy metal to me. First two heavy albums I ever heard were Sabbath's "Masters Of Reality", and Purple's "Machine Head".

So, I personally will never think of those two as anything but heavy metal. I do agree that Deep Purple is really "only" hard rock, but from my context and point of view...they are heavy metal pioneers, along with Sabbath and Uriah Heep.

Priest was always heavy metal for me. Definitely have some songs, and entire albums, that don't really scream metal, but for me...metal now, metal then.

Iron Maiden is the same for me....metal now, metal then. Sabbath I've already remarked on....metal at all times.

I purchased the Fastway right when it came out, and this track posted here was the reason why. But they never struck me as metal....just hard rock. I was messing around on my guitar the other night, and I started playing this riff...and it sounded familiar to me. And then it came back to me...sounded like the main riff of this Fastway right here! Is this a case of "channeling rock n roll riffage"??? Spooky, man!

And finally...some comments on the comments!! For Scott...great idea again on the "now vrs. then theme". And it does really make you think, and it's very interesting how our opinions can change with time.

For Jon, I am surprised you dont like "Who Do We Think We Are?". It's a classic to me. But, for you and everyone who mentioned "punk" in terms of Paul Dianno era Maiden....I find that very interesting, as it never struck me that way. I have both those first two releases on vinyl, and now, I want to go find them and listen again. Very interesting indeed. And Jon mentions some later Maiden as proggish...I've never heard that, but I do in fact agree.

I did not like Bruce Dickinson era Maiden for a long time. I always thought they just tried to cram too many damn notes into the rhythm's of the songs (and what is more proggish than that???). But don't fret Maiden fans...I'm one with you now!!

And I agree 100 percent with RJHog and whoever else. Kiss is not heavy metal, nor is AC-DC. But influential to metal bands? Absolutely. Oh, and RJHog stating he would have been freaked out by hearing Sabbath at 4 years old? Well, that is how my mental image of Purple as metal came to be. Listen to "Machine Head" at 11 or 12 years old, after a steady diet of Beatles and CCR?? I would think you would understand why I think of DP as metal...despite the next 40 years of their career!

For Niels, very interesting where you bring up the point about the bands themselves....do THEY think of themselves as metal? Very good point, but again, I think you have to decide how it is in context with your own life and experiences. I do recall hearing or reading where Zeppelin, especially Robert Plant, HATED being called a heavy metal band.

And finally, for Scandal 2000, I too love Bruce Dickinson's solo stuff, especially the two releases you mentioned. "Balls To Picasso" is very good, as well. I actually listen to my Dickinson stuff more than I do my Maiden stuff.

Great conversation, everyone! Finally, I think we should all just agree with "the Mickster"..."it's only rock n roll, but I like it..."!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Scott on January 17, 2014 at 7:12pm

This sir, is the finest reply ever posted on CRB! Thank you so much!

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Permalink Reply by Niels (Mod) on January 18, 2014 at 4:00am

Let me ask you this:

When did YOU heard the term "Heavy Metal" yourself for the first time?

I know, I first heard, that music could be called Heavy Metal, when I heard Priest and Maiden in the first half of 1980.

Up until then, I was listening to Hard Rock, maybe Heavy Rock, but even though, I had been listening to KISS, AC/DC, the Who, Black Sabbath, Van Halen aso. since around 1977, the term "Heavy Metal" wasn't mentioned until 1980.

Tell me the truth: Did you guys use the term "Heavy Metal" yourself in the '70's?

Just like Punk came around in 1976, but nowadays Iggy Pop & The Stooges are considered Punk, but it wasn't called Punk in 1970.

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Permalink Reply by Scott on January 18, 2014 at 7:44am

Not sure when I first heard it. I cant say there was any moment or epiphany that solidified Heavy Metal as a certain brand or sound of music.

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Permalink Reply by Jon on January 18, 2014 at 8:30am

Have no idea when I first heard it. I was listening to country and big band music for most of the 70's so wouldn't have heard it mentioned on any of those radio stations. I didn't even hear of punk until it had run its course, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist because I hadn't heard of it before.

So, no. I never used the term "heavy metal" in the 70's. However, that does not mean it did not exist. It's basically the same with almost all types of music, there was disco before disco, there was grunge before grunge.

In some cases, it just takes a band or two to try something new, soon others will follow and evolve the sound and then there will be a new classification. A new style of music will explode unto the scene, but at first it'll be classified as rock. It'll be different though, it'll be music with more cowbell then you've ever heard before. Soon, new bands will crop up adding more and more cowbell. This is eventually dubbed as "Crock" and then eventually everyone loses interest. But that first band, even though they weren't known as a Crock band before, they started the movement, so wouldn't they be considered Crock Rock?