Hidden Treasures - Metal or Hard Rock?

[Scott]

METAL or HARD ROCK?

RJ's Metal thread has me thinking. Jon and I were talking about Fastway and he said they were Hard Rock and my assertion was that they were Metal. I think to make my point and for you to agree with it, you would have to transport yourself back to 1983, was Fastway Metal at that time and did time transform them in Hard Rock? What about AC/DC? Was there ever a time when they were considered Metal? Not sure, so you tell me...

 

This week you have to do two things for each track posted other than listen and reply, yes... listen to each track and then classify it as either METAL, or HARD ROCK. Now for part II, go back and think about your answer in the context of the year the song was released? Is your answer still correct? If not what changed your thinking over the years?

 

Lets have some fun and learn something while were at it...

 

PLAYLIST --> http://www.podsnack.com/CA69EFD9E8C/ah9f2mmn

	Deep Purple Perfect Strangers 1984 1 - Knocking at Your Back Door So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1984? The Mark II line up gets tons of credit for being Heavy Metal pioneers, and rightly so, so what about when they reunited?
	Judas Priest Point of Entry 1981 2 - Heading Out To The Highway So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1981? Kind of the same line of thinking as the Deep Purple track but many mentioned JP as being without question Heavy Metal, listen to this track, do you still think the same?
	Iron Maiden Iron Maiden 1980 3 - Prowler So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1980? Here’s a tricky one, or is it? NWOBHM, New Wave some claim early Iron Maiden resembles the latter, but no one ever questions them being metal when looking at them in totality...
	Black Sabbath Black Sabbath 1970 4 - N.I.B. So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1970? Sort of like re-checking the baseline isn’t it? Well, better to know what the roots are and agree than caused an argument? Or not...???
	Fastway Fastway 1983 5 - Say What You Will So... Metal or Hard Rock? Same question as if it were 1983? OK this is the one Jon and I talked about, he said it was Hard Rock, but admitted that in 1983 it could have easily passed as a Metal tune. You decide!

[Jon]

Deep Purple: Hard Rock now, Hard Rock then

The first DP album I ever bought was "Who Do We Think We Are?" and along with me thinking is wasn't that good of an album, it really wasn't a metal album either. "In Rock" and "Machine Head" are more metal than this, for the time they came out they were metal, but now I would say more hard rock than metal, but leaning towards metal some of the time. I like being vague.

Judas Priest: Heavy Metal now, Heavy Metal then

This album is kinda metal-lite. Still an under appreciated album, but it doesn't pack the punch of "British Steel" or the followup, "Screaming For Vengeance". Plus the album cover didn't exactly scream metal.

Iron Maiden: Heavy Metal now, Heavy Metal then

Actually, more punk with the first two albums, with heavy metal tendencies. Then with Dickinson joining, no punk, more metal as well as prog. Either way, they've been metal. Punk metal, metal, prog metal. Metal, metal, metal. 

Black Sabbath: Heavy Metal now, Heavy Metal then

Does this really need a discussion?

Fastway: Hard Rock then, Hard Rock now

Back then, I just thought this was a kick ass song as well as a kick ass album. Back in '83, it could be considered metal, as stated in our previous discussion. Heavy blues rock would be a nice description. Heck, this is also considered Hair Metal which is way off base. Considering that Black Sabbath's "Born Again", Maiden's "Piece Of Mind", Grim Reaper's "See You In Hell", Picture's "Eternal Dark", Mercyful Fate's "Melissa", Accept's "Balls To The Wall" all came out this year (and I had them all), this was really less metallic than them.

[Niels (Mod)]

"Does this really need a discussion?"

Apparently yes!!

[Scott]

Early Maiden is a punk metal mix.   I love what Dickinson did when he joined! 

[RJhog (Admin)]

Deep Purple - Hard Rock now, Hard Rock then.  Plain and simple, Deep Purple, while heavy, is just too melodic to be metal.  My opinion.  I didn't really listen to DP that much back then, really only knew Smoke On The Water.  And I personally don't think Metal was used properly until Metallica came along.  I mean, some people said Kiss was metal.  Even Gene called Kiss a Heavy Metal band.  And Kiss is not nor has it ever been about Metal.  

Judas Priest - This song sounds like Hard Rock to me.  But I would consider Priest to be Metal.  I'm not a fan of Halford's high pitched screaming voice, though he sounds good here.  And Priest is a band I've never gotten into.  So, overall, I'm not sure how to answer this, other than this is Hard Rock from a Metal band.

[RJhog (Admin)]

Iron Maiden - Metal now, Metal then.  This one is easy.  Despite what I said about Deep Purple being too melodic to be Metal, Iron Maiden is somewhat melodic vocally with very melodic guitar work.  This is just straight up Metal, no sub-genre for me.  Again, Iron Maiden is a recently acquired taste for me, never liked 'em back in "the day".  

Black Sabbath - Metal now, Metal then.  I sound like a broken record, or maybe a scratched record, but I never listened to BS until the last few years.  But if I would have listened to this in 1970 (I was four years old), I would have had nightmares unending.  I'd say Black Sabbath is the heaviest band I've ever heard that didn't use double bass drumming to make it sound heavier.  Iommi, Butler and Ward were the masters of heavy.  Heavy Metal, by definition, is Black Sabbath.

[RJhog (Admin)]

Fastway - This one is tougher.  It almost sounds like Motley Crue vocally.  It's not overly heavy if you ask me.  Nothing near as heavy as Black Sabbath.  I'm gonna have to say, after a full listen, Hard Rock now.  When I go back mentally to 1983, I would have probably said Metal back then.  Because I thought Motley Crue was Metal back then, and this sounds like the Crue, so Metal then.

Cool topic Scott.

[Scott]

Thanks boss... Your idea, this was just the complimentary listening experience,..

[Niels (Mod)]

Knocking At Your Backdoor: Hard Rock then Classic Rock now (and Hard Rock). Purple was never Metal.

Heading Out The Highway: Heavy Metal then, Heavy Metal now. For those who say, that the Thrash-Metal bands are the real Heavy, this is probably Hard Rock, but not for me.

Prowler: One of the first Heavy Metal-tracks, I ever heard (Yes, Scott, Heavy Metal as such started with NWOBHM), but it's really a cross between Punk and Heavy Metal, still is.

N.I.B.: Hard Rock or even Heavy Rock then, but never Heavy METAL, and now it's Classic Rock of the finest kind.

Say What You Will: Fast Eddie played Heavy Metal with Motorhead, but this was and still is Hard Rock. 

[Scott]

Niels, you are the only one to claim Black Sabbath as Hard Rock.  I think to claim NWOBHM was the origin of Metal this position works nicely...

[Niels (Mod)]

Yeah, the only one around here.

I seem to remember an interview with either Iommi or Butler. They claimed they were in their prime, a Heavy blues rock band or something like that. If the band itself claims, that they are not Heavy Metal, or were not Heavy Metal in the 70's, then why would anybody else? Was Rainbow with Dio Heavy Metal? No, they were Hard or Heavy Rock. Not Metal.

Show me an interview, where Black Sabbath themselves claims to be HEAVY METAL, but it has to be an interview from the 70's.

METAL started when Rob Halford put on his leather-outfit on stage in the end of the 70's.   

[Scandal 2000]

Deep Purple-Hard rock then, hard rock now. Deep Purple were never metal. They are influential on metal (just like bands like AC/DC, Alice Cooper, Van Halen and KISS are as well), but not metal.

Judas Priest-Has always been metal. Granted they were slightly more pop metal on albums like Turbo, but always metal

Iron Maiden-Jon nailed it again. The first two were more punk sounding mainly due to the vocals but even though they mixed in metal. Once Dickinson joined the band, they were straight up metal. I do think in recent years they have moved to a slightly more progressive sound (which is why I have enjoyed most of their recent work. Check out Bruce Dickinson's Accident of Birth or Chemical Wedding solo albums if you want to hear some great metal)

Black Sabbath-Always metal. Over 40 years later, even their earliest albums still sound heavy today.

Fastway-Always hard rock. I will say this. There are different levels of hard rock. Billy Squier is hard rock in his own way, but obviously a lot more commercial and not as rocking as Fastway but still hard rock.

AC/DC has always been hard rock.

 

 

 

[Scott]

I would agree that Priest has always been metal.